If we would like to use an "ecological" or at least the most-resource-saving protocol on Internet for exchanging text and files and which is secure, what could it be?

Gopher is quite simple, but has no security.

Gemini integrates with TLS, but doesn't allow to know the file's size before downloading. I think it is better to be able to choose to download according to the file size.

HTTPS allows maybe too much overhead and too much linked resources.

@julienxx Right! It may be as simple as using SFTP.

We could have a SFTP space with SFTP logs.

Is SFTP already used like this?

@KillianKemps I believe it is on some tildes. A more energy efficient protocol would currently be Scuttlebutt

@julienxx You think Scuttlebutt is more energy efficient than SFTP?

The thing is, from what I tried, the Patchwork client is developed in Electron and is quite resource intensive. Also there is this synchronization step at the beginning for Patchwork and Manyverse which uses a lot too.

I like the ability to exchange offline and to synchronize later, but on the client-side at least it seems quite resource-intensive.

@KillianKemps I can only suppose since it’s peer to peer without a server running 24/24. Never tried it so I can’t say about the clients but there are non-JS ones being developed

@julienxx @KillianKemps I'm super intrigued by the SFTP-space idea!

I'm actually super interested in this whole line of thinking. I have meant for a while to start work on some kind of "side spec" (like robots.txt or sitemap.xml, etc) for Gemini which defines one or two well-known endpoints at which clients can download (i) a list of all files on a server, with their MIME type and filesize, (ii) a big ol' tarball of the entire site.

@julienxx @KillianKemps The idea being that this could work better for people who are only intermittently online, and could cut down on the overhead of multiple TLS setups/teardowns.

@solderpunk @julienxx @KillianKemps I really like the idea of shared SFTP spaces too, especially since it becomes very flexible in regards to tooling and personal/local presentation (since there are a lot of different client solutions with different philosophies already).

@Steinar @julienxx @KillianKemps Julien, maybe you could try this out on your Plan 9 tilde if sftp has been ported there, which I'm sure it has?

@solderpunk @Steinar @KillianKemps sure thing! Once I have access to the internet again I’ll try this.

@Steinar @solderpunk @KillianKemps I really have no clue how it would work yet but I had this very early vision of combining SFTP with RSS. Could be nice, a feed per host for those willing to in a multi-user setup or a feed per folder or user account and you could be notified and get the new content for offline reading or whatever, with the tools you prefer... maybe even add files as comments for other text files to enable discussion... I don’t know maybe there is something

@julienxx @Steinar @solderpunk I was thinking of it too. Anonymous users could send text files through SFTP as comments to other texts. And I think by setting the sticky-bit on the files mode, the comments would not be altered by other anonymous users and still be readable to everyone.

@julienxx @Steinar @solderpunk I wonder how we could do links in SFTP. It's sad to see that gopher:// links are detected in Firefox and can be opened with Castor, but not sftp://.

@KillianKemps @julienxx That's an implementation detail though. I'm not sure sftp and scuttlebutt are really comparable: The former is a file transfer protocol that requires both parties to be immediately connected. The latter provides an append-only message log with limited routing capabilities for asynchronous data transfers.

@DHeadshot It is an interesting idea, I think SFTP would be even a little bit better because the data goes into the same SSH connection.

I had thought SFTP, but I thought SSH's encryption used more power than TLS? Maybe it could be possible to use the old Simple File Transfer Protocol over TLS, since that's single stream too?
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